Monday, December 14, 2009


Please push the link below to read Graf's response


  1. What Mr. Gill hasn’t informed the public is that a microphone is capable of picking up birdcalls from up to several kilometres away. A microphone is far more sensitive than the human ear – but is not an accurate way of measuring bird numbers.

    no, but he’s not trying to measure bird numbers... only showing that bird life is still teeming in the so-called “green desert” of post-drop Pell Stream and as we are all aware drop zones are many hundreds of hectares in size, according to the silence-after-the-drop theory there shouldn’t be a single bird call to be heard.

    We have recorded sound from one end of the country to the other, and the area’s where 1080 has never been used is profoundly better.

    so you’ve been doing recording too?( did you realise that a microphone recording is not an accurate way of measuring bird numbers?) lets hear this ‘silence” and see how it measures up to Ians....

  2. check out

    for heaps of vids and links to universities, research, and Scoop reports

  3. The Grafs again show a lack of technical skill and poor knowedge about NZ native birds. My microphone is not as sensitive as they claim. They were asked to say sorry for telling the midea and the public that 12,000 birds were killed. This was a false claim. I guess they can't bring themselves to do that, instead they go out on the attack yet again. Ian Gill

  4. Perhaps mr gill's microfone is so sensitive that the birds he heard were singing choruses from the east coast of Australia!!

  5. birdscantalk; eager to talk science?... what are your thoughts about the scientific report by Pat & Quinn Whiting O'Keefe, titled AERIAL MONOFLUORACETATE IN NEW ZEALAND'S FORESTS - An Appraisal of the scientific evidence?

    If we are to go by any of DoC's-sponsored research thus far (which has been highlighted in that report above as being fraught with statistical errors, misrepresentation of data, inappropriate and unsubstantiated claims, poor scientific methodologies, and reinforced by one poorly conducted study referencing another) then we can probably take this with a pinch of salt.

    Mind you, given that you are probably an employee, or in some way a beneficiary of the very people sanctioning the widespread use of this toxin (DoC, AHB, Forest & Bird etc), it places your agenda in the same boat as DoC.

    Are you paid / funded (either directly or indirectly) to write your propaganda about how wonderful this toxin is to our native biota?

  6. nobody involved in species conservation and bio-diversity wants to use toxins. However it is an unpleasant and and very real aspect to our work ...without the option of any of these 'alternatives' on the horizon we will use whatever is at hand to save our kokako, our kiwi and our magnificant forests. It is such a shame that you anti 1080 activists didn't get out and do the real work and then you would see what is at risk from your mindless BAN 1080 blah blah blah...

  7. what a crock aliensatemybrain.. and with a name like that, im starting to think aliens have eaten your brain.

    many of us anti 1080 advocates are involved in conservation - forms with which do NOT require lethal toxins, but rather a quick, humain dispatch.

    We trap and shoot possums for fur and pet food, we shoot deer, pigs, and goats for kai or dog food, we keep a lid on stoat numbers around the farm with traps, and we encourage our young to keep a lid on rabbits. EVerything we do here relies on the mother land

    Our family was brought up to live off the land - not to poison it. What DoC is doing, and you are advocating for, goes against everything we believe in.

    We will keep up the fight, and we will march at the next protest. My whole family will

  8. i kinda agree with both you it's really good to keep a handle on the possums and pig around the your stake but somehow i think the problims a bit biggar than that at the same time cause that doesnt help the native bird populations that live in the big land and if you've done some living out in the real forest you get a feel for how big it really is and its full to the brim with bloody rats and possums and you kinda get ovawelmed by it all a bit i don't no the answer but what they doing is kinda keeping a lid on it in a big pictare kind of way i think lots of you guys want the same thing but youare to busy yelling to here each otha. thats it

  9. Bushgirl, we are fighting for the same outcome; but our means of achieving it are very different..

    We are fighting for a greener, more environmentally friendly way of controlling possums and stoats through contracting work (creating jobs and avoiding blanket dumps of toxins in our environment).

    Doing what we've always done, and using the argument that if we don't continue using 1080 because we have no other "cost effective" alternative is a crock.

    There are alternatives, and they do work.

    What cost do we place on maintaining a healthy environment? Even if contracting work costs more than blanket dumps, why wouldn't you support a cleaner, greener option?

  10. On another note, more research is needed to calculate what the non-market value of maintaining NZ's pure, clean, green image instead of blanket dumps of 1080.

    Mind you, if DoC sponsored this research god help us! We would probably be eating this stuff for breakfast!!!

  11. bush girl, thanks for the lincoln site you referenced..

    can you advise how the researchers conducted their risk assessments for the few species they made reference to? What are their calculations based on? I think the highest risk ranking was like 20% or something...

    Is this piece another DoC-sponsored research where they do a study on like ten wood pigeons, find that one died from 1080, and say that 1080 only effects 10% of the population??

    Statistically this has no almost credibility whatsoever. No power calculations, no P values, or confidence intervals... but I guess I shouldn't be surprised, it is afterall, porbably just another piece of DoC-sponsored research

  12. I thought so...

    they got nothing more to say...

  13. looks like it's a Lincoln University site...'IMPACTS OF 1080 ON TAONGA SPECIES' ..

    also check out

  14. I have been involved in all facets of forestry ranging from silviculture to indigenous management cruising Waitutu to watching over Hokonui hills Issueing of hunting permit to kill returns.1080 appl.Indigenous animal trials ..
    Catlins is my current turf(bush dweller)and after an aerial drop to visually see the winter migration of tuis to a large bluegum plantation nearby decimated..moreporks also then I dam well finally woke up and decided recently to get looking and learning.
    Took one week for Ian Gill(Trakabat on utube) DOC PR OFFICER FOR 1080, to label me an Anti 1080 well funded minority activist who knows nothing and is abusive ..So hell yes that will quite appropriate.
    Contrary to their own beliefs Pro 1080 people are becoming extinct, whereas those against it have a huge following although the kiwi "sheeples" attitude remains . Many are misled by DOC'S manipulation or DOCtoring of the data to suit.Many say "What can i do?"Thats changing thanks to Graf boys mostly.
    doc, erma, reg auth, ahb are slowly but surely backing up against the wall .I see a lot more co-ordinated efforts and solidarity coming.
    Stuff the scientific to-ing and fro-ing .
    Until full scientific studies are undertaken on the continual aerial dropping of this toxin and the long term affects are beyond a doubt proven safe then i'm GUNNA keep activatin? to have it banned at least aerially .
    My reasons are simple..It's cruel and inhumane,non selective toxin,potential to wreck the ecosystem.exports,tourism.peoples health etc .
    nz authorities are abusing usage guidlines,many countries have banned it or banning it,mostly used in collars for coyotes and here? Aussie baits and animals have to be buried.
    World pressure on nz just may help stop it . Exports-is only a matter of time until once again 1080 will be the cause .Congressman DeFazios bill 2010 to have it totally banned in the entire usa(6 states? use it in collars)will maybe change things.
    So for me, what more is needed to tell me it's bad.NOTHING NADA ZILCH
    I suggest the gullibe people convinced by the pro's the birds are thriving wake up and err on the side of caution. Scaremongering- I think not

    I'm standing up to be counted and will keep looking learning(worldwide) and doing what i can in my way and that includes commenting on misleading spin in you tube.

    Current hate--2010 doc to aerial drop 25000ha Waitutu.(fiordland)vast majority pristine coastal podocarp and FLAT AS A BLOODY PANCAKE.Easily walked.. no tb ever.Needs controli guess but for maybe 10-15% extra $$$for ground control to avoid secondary poisoning and killing of non target species doc have shot themselves in the foot here. Ian Gill said today bird bykill aint a problem here. doc spokesmans Extra $300,000 to do 19,oooha is erroneous.$$$ for this op funded on the stipulation aerial only .. sue Maturin otago forest n bird goes public saying Aerial yeah great,back it people .Go for it .. Um and where does some of their funding come from again? Forest and bird along with spca i think are ......... Fill it in for me

    I'm done so bring it on i can handle it..cheers to all who genuinely care about the environment and not being paid to spin propaganda to retain their kingdoms .my e mail should be visible so no skin off my butt if you wish to abuse. i won't block you like the wee pro group tends too.Has anyone noticed for example my doc pr friend will not respond to questions 1080 global wise. just the birds are thriving . must be a CD or tape recording i think

  15. New Zealand's "mammal mafia" has been accused of devouring more than 26.5 million birds in native forests a year.

    And the death toll of native birds is even higher when attacks in other habitats are included.

    Hamilton-based Landcare Research scientist John Innes tallied the damage wrought by rats, possums and stoats, who he called a gang of mammal mafia, to illustrate the threat to the country's native wildlife.

    And he said it was time opponents of 1080 "got real about the facts".

    "Most endemic forest birds are disappearing because of predators – 1080 opponents should get their heads around the fact that while they complain about cruel deaths, millions of forest birds are being killed by mammals every year."

    Statistics quoted in a New Zealand Journal of Ecology and published on-line this month, were used to produce the multimillion death toll, which Mr Innes said was an under-estimate and did not include the adult, usually a female, which had been incubating the eggs or caring for the chicks. It also did not include introduced species such as blackbirds and thrush.

    Mr Innes said forest covered 23 per cent of New Zealand, an area totalling 5.98 million hectares. He said if there were five native bird nests to each hectare in any nesting season, that was 29.9 million nests. Of those, 73 per cent failed – a total of 21.827 million nests and, at an average of two eggs per nest, a total of 42.654 million chicks which failed to fly from the nest.

    Predators are blamed for 61 per cent – 26,628,940 – of chick and egg losses.

    Mr Innes said the mammal war on birds went unnoticed because it occurred at night at the top of trees. "There has not been one published eye-witness account of a ship rat killing a bird, yet it's been going on since the ship rat arrived here, and the kiore (native rat) before then. There is nowhere that a bird can lay a nest that a rat can't get to. That's why they are such pervasive agents of change."

    Mr Innes' comments follow on from a series of 17 marches, including one on his home patch Hamilton, calling for an end to aerial drops of 1080 targeted at possums.

    Opponents said the Government should use different methods to control or trap pests because aerial drops hit animals which had not been targeted.

    New Zealand uses 80 per cent of the world's production of 1080 and the Environmental Risk Management Authority (Erma) regards it as a "necessary evil".

    Taupo District Council has already banned aerial drops. Mayor Rick Cooper said the operations were uncontrolled and the risk to the environment and waterways too great.

    But Mr Innes said he re-mained frustrated that people still could not accept the evidence that mammals were destroying the vast majority of nestings attempted by endemic birds and "we have this fabulous toxin" which could help.

    Levin photographer David Mudge has, for more than a decade, illustrated the carnage in New Zealand forests by producing photographic evidence to condemn the mammals.

    The publication of one of his pictures, showing a rat eating a fantail, upset some Waikato Times readers in 2007. But Mr Innes wanted to see more such pictures published.

    Mr Mudge has been taking wildlife photos since 1983 and has become an expert in getting incriminating evidence against mammals.

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